Dinosaurs!
O.K., now we get into the fun stuff.
How this is going to work is I will have a sort of "cladogram" (it's not
a real cladogram, wherein the characters pertaining to each taxon are run
through computer
models to test taxon relationships, but more a sort of composite of
well-regarded trees), with various clades, some of
which I'll expand on on different pages. Any dinosaurs falling out at a given
clade will be
profiled below the cladogram (you'll be able to tell the dinosaurs from the classification
level names because the dinosaur names will be in italics). Further
navigation can be done with the table at the bottom of the page.
I'd like to take a moment and briefly (for now; I hope to
expand later) place dinosaurs among the reptiles. Dinosaurs, including
birds, are members of Archosauria, a group of reptiles also including the
crocodilians. This group in turn is part of Diapsida, which also includes
the lepidosauromorphs, which include the lizards, snakes, and mosasaurs, a group
of marine reptiles from the upper Cretaceous usually allied with the monitor
lizards, but sometimes considered closer to snakes. Diapsids are known by
their two temporal fenestrae, among other things. Diapsids together with
Anapsida [turtles] are the main members of Reptilia.
Other famous prehistoric reptiles (and "reptiles")
include the pterosaurs, ichthyosaurs, plesiosaurs and allies, "thecodonts,"
and things like Dimetrodon. Pterosaurs were
recently thought to be very close to Dinosauria, but new study indicates that
they are farther away, possibly not even archosaurians. Ichthyosaurs,
famous for their close resemblance to dolphins, have an uncertain placement, due
to the general lack of good remains from very basal members. In the past,
they were sometimes classified with the plesiosaurs and their allies in
Euryapsida (again due to temporal fenestrae), a group which turned out to be
unnatural. The plesiosaurs and their allies, including the nothosaurs
(which looked broadly like less marine plesiosaurs) and placodonts (unusual,
heavily-armored forms with robust teeth for crushing shells) are classified in
the Sauropterygia, which likely is a subgroup of Diapsida. "Thecodontia"
is an old name for an assemblage of of archosaurs that were linked by
their not being anything else; the ancestors of the derived archosaurian
lineages were often considered simply archosaurs, for example the "lagosuchids."
Animals like Dimetrodon (which greatly predated the dinosaurs, but still
finds its way into "dinosaur" toy sets; it must be in its contract)
are not true reptiles, but closer to mammals, hence the old phrase
"mammal-like reptiles."
Eventually, I'd like to take the information in the preceding
two paragraphs and put it on a new page in a much expanded form, for one because
it's kind of unfair to just throw the dinosaurs out without giving a sense of
their background, and second because the other animals (I find pterosaurs and
plesiosaurs particularly interesting) are worthy of it in their own right.
I hope I haven't been too confusing in this short introduction.
Meanwhile...
<--Dinosauromorpha
|--"Lagerpetonidae"
| |--Dromomeron
| `--Lagerpeton
`--Dinosauriformes
|--Marasuchus
`--+--"Silesaurs"
| |--Eucoelophysis
| `--Silesaurus
`-- Dinosauria
|--Saurischia
| |--Herrerasauridae
| | |--Herrerasaurus
| | `--Staurikosaurus
| `--+--Eoraptor
| `--Eusaurischia
| |-->Theropoda
|
`-->Sauropodomorpha
`-->Ornithischia (aka Predentata)
Poor Remains That May Come From Dinosaurs\Dinosauromorphs, But For Which The
Evidence Is Equivocal At This Time: You may remember
the spurt of "Triassic tooth ornithischians"
in the 1990s and early 2000s. The flagship genus was Revueltosaurus,
which ungratefully turned out to be a pseudosuchian after the skull was found
(and a rather odd one to boot, related to the armored, herbivorous aetosaurs). A pseudosuchian, despite its name
("false croc"), is actually related to the base of the croc lineage.
Since then, Crosbysaurus, Lucianosaurus,
Protecovasaurus, and Tecovasaurus have been shown to be probably
valid, but also only classifiable to Archosauriformes i.s. (so pretty far
from dinosaurs), and probably not dinosaurs
(they lack a cingulum on the teeth, a sort of ridge around the base of the
crown),
while Pekinosaurus and Galtonia are regarded as Revueltosaurus sp.,
and the newly-minted Krzyzanowskisaurus hunti, a former species of
Revueltosaurus with an imitation cingulum, now regarded as possibly
pertaining to Revueltosaurus (again). Azendohsaurus, first
thought to be a "fabrosaurid", then a prosauropod, is also probably
not dinosaurian.
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| ?Avipes dillstedtianus (N.D.) Huene, 1932 | ?Ladinian (MTr) of Germany | Although often considered to be a small dinosaur because the metatarsals it was named from appear to come from a digitigrade animal, it could equally well be a pterosaur, saltoposuchid crocodilian, or other digitigrade (walking on the toes) archosaurian. If it was a dinosaur, it was one of the earliest. A "lagosuchid"-like animal is probably the closest it was to Dinosauria. |
| ?Lewisuchus admixtus Romer, 1972 | Ladinian (MTr) of Argentina | Reinstated provisionally, big-headed Lewisuchus may be another basal dinosauromorph (and possibly the same as Pseudolagosuchus). |
| ?Rachitrema pellati (N.D.) Sauvage, 1883 | Rhaetian (LTr) of France | Usually tossed off as a dubious ichthyosaurian, the recent Handbook of Paleoherpetology on the subject (Part 8, McGowan and Motani, 2003) claims that the remains are probably dinosaurian. Further discussion has come down on the "nondinosaurian" side, but I'm willing to let this go a little longer and then cut it, since beyond its interesting name, by all accounts it represents just fragments. |
| Razanandrongobe sakalavae Maganuco, Dal Sasso, and Pasini, 2006 | Bathonian (MJ) of Madagascar | This archosaur, either a large crocodylomorph or a theropod, is known from a maxilla fragment with teeth. At this time, not enough is known to settle on one option. |
| Rhadinosaurus alcinus (N.D.) Seeley, 1881 | early Campanian (LK) of Austria | Although considered at times a nodosaurid and a possible synonym of the ever-popular Struthiosaurus, it is not known if this taxon is even dinosaurian (crocodilian has been one alternative). |
| ?Spondylosoma absconditum (N.D.) Huene, 1942 | ?late Ladinian (MTr) of Brazil | I thought I was done with this thing, but it keeps popping back up. It's based on postcranial material, including cervicals, dorsals, sacrals, ribs, and a humerus, that show a mix of dinosaurian and non-dinosaurian (raisuchians, closer to crocs) characters. |
| ?"Thecodontosaurus" subcylindrodon (N.D.) Huene, 1907-08 | Norian-Rhaetian (LTr) of England | This may be a herrerrasaur-type theropod, or nondinosaurian. The material includes a partial femur. |
Dinosauromorpha i.s.: This level is just before Dinosauria, and is primitive in several ways. For example, the animals here still have armor plating down the midline of their backs (Ceratosaurus either retains this or converges [has a similar character evolved from different processes]), sacra with less than three vertebrae contributing, and very underdeveloped pelvic bones compared to true dinosaurs (the pubis of Marasuchus is very short, and the ilium is still small).
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Lagosuchus talampayensis (N.D.) Romer, 1971 | Ladinian (MTr) of Argentina | This animal was probably very much like Marasuchus (understandably, since this is basically Marasuchus without valid characteristics preserved in its type remains). Lagosuchus was dumped because its type material was too poor to provide any anatomical characters that could be called uniquely its own. Good material that was assigned to it earlier that did provide such characters was renamed Marasuchus. |
| ?Saltopus elginensis (N.D.) Huene, 1910 | late Carnian (LTr) of Scotland | This small animal was often illustrated in the past, giving the idea that we know more about it than we do. The type material, including hips, tail, and limb material, is poorly preserved. Saltopus may well be a "lagosuchid." |
"Lagerpetonidae":
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Dromomeron romeri Irmis, Nesbitt, Padian, Smith, Turner, Woody, and Downs, 2007 | Norian (LTr) of New Mexico, Arizona, and Texas | Based on a femur and with some other hindlimb bones known as well, Dromomeron appears to be closest to Lagerpeton. What makes it even more interesting is that it was found in a quarry that also included the bones of an unnamed animal like Silesaurus, Chindesaurus, and an unnamed coelophysoid, which shows that early dinosaurs hadn't managed to kick out their cousins immediately, and that early offshoots from the dinosaur line had diversified and prospered from their roots farther back in the Triassic. In addition, the faunal changeover, including loss of these early groups, may have taken place at different points in time in different locations. |
| Lagerpeton chanarensis Romer, 1971 | Ladinian (MTr) of Argentina | This is an unusual little animal. It's a rather obscure creature similar to Marasuchus, but not as well known. Its feet are unusual in that the fourth toe and metatarsal are longer than the other toes and metatarsals, unique among dinosauromorphs. |
Dinosauriformes: I'm just throwing this term in for the sake of completeness and accuracy, but it doesn't really add much to what we're doing here, given how few animals are known at the base of the dinosaur lineage.
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Marasuchus lillioensis Sereno and Arcucci, 1994 (originally Lagosuchus lillioensis Romer, 1971) | Ladinian (MTr) of Argentina | This was a small (half-meter scale, or if you absolutely refuse to deal in such units, less than a foot and a half in length, most of which is tail), agile, possibly leaping dinosauriform. It was probably a small-game hunter. |
"Silesaurs":
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Silesaurus opolensis Dzik, 2003 | late Carnian (LTr) of Poland | Silesaurus is one of the most
interesting and unusual dinosaur-type animals to have come out in the last
few years. I say "dinosaur-type" because it is very basal,
if at all a dinosaur. The short ilium and closed acetabulum are
basal features, and the neural spines remind me of various
"thecodonts," while the long forelimbs are like the
"lagosuchids," but the pubes are very elongated compared to
non-dinosaurian archosaurians, and the lower jaw has a small beaked
prominence, possibly related to a predentary. Silesaurus may
be a very basal ornithischian, or some dinosauromorph that happened to
have a beak, or could even represent a basal
prosauropod-ornithischian relative, reviving Phytodinosauria. It is
described as more derived than Pseudolagosuchus, but more basal
than Dinosauria. Several individuals are known, with enough material
to get a very clear idea of the skeleton (except the hand). Recent
reports put it as the sister group to Saurischia+Ornithischia, although it
could still be an ornithischian. I wonder if this animal is responsible for earlier reports of Thecodontosaurus from Poland. |
| Eucoelophysis baldwini Sullivan and Lucas, 1999 | late Carnian-early Norian (LTr) of New Mexico |
The old entry for this animal ran like this: "Eucoelophysis is based on partial
remains including 2 dorsal verts, two caudals, a partial shoulder girdle,
most of a pelvis, and hindlimb material. It is also tied up in the Coelophysis
saga; in the late 1980s and early 90s, a challenge was mounted on the validity of Coelophysis
because some paleontologists claimed this specimen showed no characters that were
distinctive, while others claimed it did. Rioarribasaurus colberti was
substituted for a while for the hundreds of Ghost Ranch specimens, but then Coelophysis
was officially redefined to have as its new type a Ghost Ranch skeleton, leaving the
original type homeless. Part of the original type of Coelurus
longicollis (not the current lectotype), one of the three species Cope named which were later
generally considered to be within the limits of variation of C. (later
Coelophysis) bauri, was assigned to this species, and the
other fragmentary original types were considered possibly referable.
Additional material, including skull and postcranial material, may be
known. It is slightly older than Coelophysis." The historical stuff still holds; there was a time in the recent past when the taxonomy of Coelophysis was a divisive issue (now it's move on to "Syntarsus"), and this was one solution. However, the animal in question has ungratefully turned out to be something much more like Silesaurus, as a dinosauriform. Thus, we have the irony that comes of including classification details in an animal's name: "true Coelophysis" is actually not particularly closely related to the Coelophysis we're used to (apparently the "false Coelophysis") at all. The other moral of the story is to watch out when dealing with Triassic reptiles. |
"Silesaurs" i.s.:
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Pseudolagosuchus major Arcucci, 1987 | Ladinian (MTr) of Argentina | Pseudolagosuchus is something of a dinosauromorph enigma. It is not yet well known, and has been considered as a "lagosuchid" (hence the name), "staurikosaurid", and possibly even very early theropod. Recent sources tend to put it as the sister taxon to Dinosauria, but we'll see where it settles. It is known from a handful of specimens, mostly of vert and hindlimb material. |
| Sacisaurus agudoensis Ferigolo and Langer, 2006 | Norian (LTr) of Brazil | At first mooted as a possible basal ornithischian, due to an apparent incipient predentary composed of two unfused beak elements, one on each side of the lower jaw, recent discoveries like Silesaurus indicate that it's really a dinosauriform, possibly a "silesaurid". Remains from several individuals are known. |
| Technosaurus smalli Chatterjee, 1984 | Carnian (LTr) of Texas | Based on a poorly-associated partial skeleton that was first assigned to basal Ornithischia with part of a jaw later sent to Sauropodomorpha, the true identity of this animal is now known. Restricted to the premaxilla and dentary, it seems to be related to Silesaurus; a posterior mandible chunk belongs to Shuvosaurus, which is most certainly not a dinosaur. |
Dinosauria i.s.: Dinosaurians (er, uh, dinosaurs) are set apart ancestrally by a
number of characteristics, some the most recognizable including a femur with a
fully-offset head and distinct neck and ball, a hip with the acetabulum largely or fully opened (this is later changed in the ankylosaurians, where the acetabulum is secondarily rewalled
for strength), a fully backward facing shoulder socket, and a well-developed ascending
process of the astragalus (note: dinosaurs, compared to a lot of animals, had very simple ankles
and wrists, often reducing the legions of little bones humans find so easy to injure in
their wrists and ankles) (these characters taken from The Dinosauria, Weishampel,
Dodson, and Osmolska, 1990). It should be noted that many workers are coming to see some
of these characters as convergences among the dinosaurs due to acquisition of
bipedal posture. For example, there is some question about the nature of
the ancestral dinosaur acetabulum.
Many dinosaurs had extensions of the spines of the verts that
gave them "fin" backs. Unlike the fin of the famous non-dinosaur
Dimetrodon, dinosaur fins were most likely thick, as seen by the
differing forms; dinosaur spines are wide for an aft, unlike the narrow spines
of Dimetrodon. They could have
used these "fins" for display, thermoregulation, muscle attachment,
fat storage, or other functions.
The taxa listed here are mostly very dubious, to the point where they
cannot be assigned to a higher level. Sometimes this is due to poor material, and
sometimes this is due to the fact the material does not belong to one kind of dinosaur,
but to at least two different types, creating what is called a chimera (or
chimaera, if your taste runs to additional "a"s). Some of the
chimerical animals listed, like Sanpasaurus, could become better classified if the
remains were to be officially limited to one or the other animals present in the remains, but
others, like Sinosaurus, probably are doomed to an eternity in the
paleontological wastebasket.
The earliest known dinosaur remains may belong to a
herrerasaurid; a pubic boot from the Anisian-age (MTr) portion of the Moenkopi
Formation in Arizona appears to have come from such a beast. Based on what
we know about basal dinosaurs, they probably first radiated in the Middle Triassic, so
this wouldn't be surprising.
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: | |
| "Acanthopholis" platypus (N.D.) Seeley, 1869 | late Albian (EK) of England | Acanthopholis has always been good for chimeric taxa. In this case, metatarsals included in the type of this species are from a sauropod (thought to be Macrurosaurus, but this cannot be confirmed as the latter is a chimera itself, based on caudals). The rest of it, six caudal centra and some odds and ends, is ankylosaurian. | |
| Apatodon mirus (N.D.) Marsh, 1877 | ?Kimmeridgian (LJ) of Rocky Mountain region, USA | Apatodon is a name Marsh came up with for something he thought was a Mesozoic pig jaw, but which was quickly shown to be an eroded dinosaur vertebra (the neural spine looked like a tooth). Sometimes, it gets mixed up with Allosaurus, for no particular reason. | |
| ?Agnosphitys cromhallensis Fraser, Padian, Walkden, and Davis, 2002 | ?Norian-Rhaetian (LTr) of England | A possible basal dinosaur, described as more derived than Eoraptor and Herrerasaurus (but interestingly, in the description all are considered basal to true dinosaurs), it is based on an ilium (with partially-perforated acetabulum and two sacrals), with maxilla, astragalus, humerus, and teeth referred to it. It has been misspelled as Agnostiphys and Agnosphytis in the past. | |
| "Iguanodon" exogyrarum (N.D.) Fritsch, 1878 (Ponerosteus) | Cenomanian (LK) of Germany | Also known as Ponerosteus (Olshevsky, 2000), this taxon is about as dubious as it gets. It is based on what may be a tibial endocast (so the interior of the tibia), and is probably only considered dinosaurian because of size. The translation of Ponerosteus says it all: "bad, worthless, or useless bone". | |
| ?Lametasaurus indicus (N.D.) Matley, 1921 | Maastrichtian (LK) of India | This taxon was once considered to be an armored dinosaur, but now its remains are believed to belong to a theropod, a crocodilian, and an armored dinosaur, either a titanosaurian or ankylosaurian. In particular, the type is given as scutes (by some sources; other suggest differently), which are a mix of crocodilian and possible titanosaur and/or ankylosaurian armor; referred material includes ilia, a tibia, and a sacrum, which may belong to the carnotaurine abelisaurid Rajasaurus. | |
| "Luanpingosaurus jingshanensis" (N.N.) Cheng vide Chen, 1996 (?Psittacosaurus) | LJ of China | At this point your guess is as good as mine. There are reports that it is a synonym of Psittacosaurus, but as the formation from which it was found is reputedly LJ, I am a bit skeptical. | |
| "Oshanosaurus youngi" (N.N.) Zhao, 1986 | EJ of China | This is an odd one. I've seen it classified as a heterodontosaurid and as a sauropod, which don't have much in common. | |
| ?Sanpasaurus yaoi (N.D.) Yang, 1946 | EJ or Tithonian (LJ) of China | This animal's type remains may come from a sauropod and iguanodontian that had their remains mingled after death. The major parts are 20 isolated verts, scapulae, forelimbs, and parts of the hindlimbs, which arrived to their museum in a jumbled state. It was described as an iguanodontid, but some researchers have suggested that parts of it, especially the forelimbs, may be from a juvenile sauropod. | |
| ?Symphyrophus musculosus (N.D.) Cope, 1878 | Kimmeridgian (LJ) of Colorado | A loser in the Marsh-Cope wars, this taxon has been considered to be a synonym of Camptosaurus, but may not be dinosaurian. | |
| Teyuwasu barbarenai Kischlat, 1999 | early Carnian (LTr) of Brazil | Based on a right femur and tibia originally referred to a non-dinosaur, this newly-described taxon bears some resemblance to Marasuchus and Herrerasaurus. Its name, which means "big lizard" in Tupi, suggests it was fairly large for an early dinosaur. It may turn out to be an early coelophysoid. | |
| Thecospondylus horneri (N.D.) Seeley, 1882 | Barremian (EK) of England | Although originally called a small theropod, the internal cast of the sacrum (hip verts) that makes up the holotype is far too big for this. | |
| Tichosteus (N.D.): Cope, 1877 | T. lucasanus (N.D.) (type) Cope, 1877 | Kimmeridgian (LJ) of Colorado | Forgotten casualties of the Marsh-Cope wars, these two species, based on vertebrae, may be theropod, ornithopod, or neither. While it is usually my policy to separate dubious species from the genus to which they were originally assigned, in this case there doesn't seem to be much of a point. Cope described them as sauropod; if anyone considers them nowadays, they are usually tossed off as possible ornithopod bones. |
| ?T. aequifacies (N.D.) Cope, 1877 | |||
Saurischia and Ornithischia: Besides some
basal forms, dinosaurs are traditionally divided into two groups based on hip
anatomy: the saurischians, which had pelves with the pubis jutting away from the
ischium; and the ornithischians, which had pelves with the pubis paralleling the
ischium (like in birds). The saurischians include the theropods and
sauropodomorphs, while the ornithischians, also known as predentatans (Predentata is a much better name for
Ornithischia, because it describes the predentary at the front of the jaw that "ornithischians"
and only "ornithischians" have among dinosaurs, while dinosaurs beside "ornithischians",
including dromaeosaurids, therizinosaurians,
and, rather anticlimactically, birds, possess an analogue of the "bird-hip"
for which Ornithischia is named) include a wide variety of beaked herbivores.
Occasionally, someone has suggested that the sauropodomorphs and the
ornithischians go together (Phytodinosauria), but this appealing idea has little
evidence for it.
Herrerasauridae: The herrerasaurids have bounced around that space between basal
Theropoda and just outside of Dinosauria for years now. The most
stable thing we can say is that they appear to be basal saurischians. For a while, many early theropods were dumped off here, but the
only certain member is its namesake. One of the unusual aspects of this group is the
very birdlike elements combined with such primitive features as a four-fingered hand.
Another odd character is the backshifting of the pubis, similar to, but not to
the same extent, as that seen in ornithischians, dromaeosaurids,
therizinosaurians, and birds.
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Staurikosaurus pricei Colbert, 1970 | earliest Carnian (LTr) of Brazil | Staurikosaurus is roughly contemporary with the Ischigualasto dinosaur fauna (including Eoraptor, Herrerasaurus, and Pisanosaurus), and seems to be intermediate in some ways between Eoraptor and Herrerasaurus, both in size and anatomy. It is not as well known as those two dinosaurs, and may turn out to be closer to the sauropodomorphs. |
| Herrerasaurus ischigualastensis Reig, 1963 (including Ischisaurus cattoi Reig 1963, and Frenguellisaurus ischigualastensis Novas 1986) | earliest Carnian (LTr) of Argentina | This is the best known early ?theropod, by dint of its many known remains. It has swallowed up two other taxa, Ischisaurus cattoi and the rather large Frenguellisaurus ischigualastensis. Currently, it is known from one nearly complete skeleton, several partial skeletons, isolated remains, and several partial to nearly complete skulls. |
Saurischia:
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Eoraptor lunensis Sereno, Forster, Rogers, and Monetta, 1993 | earliest Carnian (LTr) of Argentina | This small, very basal animal is known from an almost complete skeleton. It appears to have some variability in its teeth (heterodonty), suggesting it came from ancestors who were omnivorous, or was itself omnivorous. The skull has a broad contact between roof bones in front of the eyes, like in prosauropods. There are only two sacrals. Supposedly, additional material is known. |
Saurischia i.s.:
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Alwalkeria maleriensis Chatterjee and Creisler, 1994 (originally Walkeria maleriensis Chatterjee, 1987) | late Carnian (LTr) of India | The material is intriguing (skull, vertebrae, and some hindlimb fragments), but poorly preserved and apparently from a juvenile. It may be near Herrerasauridae, in part. |
| Chindesaurus bryansmalli Long and Murry, 1985 (?including Caseosaurus crosbyensis Hunt, Lucas, Heckert, and Lockley, 1998) | late Carnian-early Norian (LTr) of Arizona and Texas | Early press releases called this a prosauropod and the earliest dinosaur, neither of which it turned out to be. This predator is possibly intermediate between Staurikosaurus and Herrerasaurus, and is usually grouped with the herrerasaurids, but is not actually known from particularly good material, and so will continue to lead a nomadic systematic existence at the base of Saurischia (or elsewhere; it may turn out to be closer to crocs). Casesaurus, based on an ilium once referred to Chindesaurus, is here tentatively referred back to its parent. |
| ?Sinosaurus triassicus (N.D.) Yang, 1948 | Hettangian-Sinemurian (EJ) of China | Where to start with this dirty bird? It's based on chunk of jaw with teeth, which may belong to a theropod or a nondinosaurian predator. It had postcranial remains assigned to it which may be a mix of elements from not one, but two different kinds of prosauropod, namely plateosaurids and "melanorosaurids" (this material has since been reassigned to Jingshanosaurus). Don't trust this critter as far as you can throw it. |
Eusaurischia i.s.:
| Taxon or Taxa: | Time\Place: | Comments: |
| Eshanosaurus deguchiianus Xu, Zhao, and Clark, 2001 | Hettangian (EJ) of China | Based on a partial jaw, this could be the earliest known therizinosaurian (and coelurosaurian), or it could be a prosauropod-type critter. From what is now known of basal therizinosaurians, I lean toward the latter interpretation, but then there are statements from others that it's not a prosauropod, so go figure. Time-traveler? |
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